Deephaven discusses filling the pipeline in a tough market

00:00:00 If you’re not focused in the non-agency space, it’s then you’re leaving potentially one out of every four, one out of every five deals on the table. >> We shouldn’t be shy offering these products. We’re not only competitive, but we’re bringing real solutions to the market. >> It’s just knowledge and comfort level with the programs. >> It keeps us relevant as long as they’re happy. >> It brings the loan officer another avenue to get to the top of the funnel

00:00:22 on the listing side as well now. >> [music] >> Hello again and welcome to the latest edition of MPA TV. I’m Matt Sexton, mortgage journalist here with Mortgage Professional America. On today’s episode, we are discussing opportunities in today’s market and the importance of equity solutions. I’m honored to be joined by our guest on today’s episode. They are Tom Davis, Chief Sales Officer for Deephaven Mortgage, Matt Roll, Vice President of Strategic Initiatives for Deephaven Mortgage,

00:00:53 Mark Hammon, [snorts] Wholesale Account Executive with Deephaven Mortgage, Paul Schwes, Mortgage Broker Southern Mortgage Corp and Southern Mortgage Commercial, Brian [snorts] Schwes, Independent Mortgage Broker of Southern Mortgage Corp, and Diego Londono, Managing Partner of Lending Spot. Thank you all for joining us today on MPA TV. We’ll start things off with Tom. What would you say is the biggest shift you’re seeing right now in borrower behavior this year given tight affordability, limited inventory, and

00:01:24 historically high credit and auto debt right now? >> Yeah, look, the market over the last couple years has been challenging, right? But I’m a firm believer in every market there’s opportunity. Either you take share or someone takes shares from you. And what we’re seeing is mortgage brokers originators across the country who are focused in the non-agency space are really thriving in a challenging market. They’re using these products to tap into the referral sources, new referral

00:01:52 sources. They’re tapping into self-employed. They’re tap They’re helping their borrowers tap into equity. Uh so, there’s plenty of opportunity uh in the market and the non-agency space is this year’s going to be about a $400 billion uh market. Uh between non-QM at 150 to 180 billion, equity, which I think is a generational opportunity, should hit about 150 billion. You have RTL and some other esoteric products. But, if you’re not focused in the non-agency space, it’s

00:02:22 then you’re leaving potentially one out of every four one out of every five deals on the table. And, you know, uh so so uh I think today we’re going to really dig into the the equity space and talk about that. Like I said, it’s a generational opportunity. You have 24 million millionaires in the United States, of which 75% of them are millionaires cuz of their equity. Uh people are renovating their homes cuz they’re staying uh at their homes cuz they’re locked into these lower note

00:02:50 rates. So, uh you’re seeing a lot of renovation projects. In 2026, there’s going to be about 600 billion of renovation projects. You talked about consumer debt. That’s at 5 trillion, all-time high. People are consolidating their debt. And, people are leveraging their equity to fund their businesses. The the investors are tapping into the equity to rehab their portfolios, buy new investment properties, right? Uh maybe start ground up or fix and flip projects. So, having these tools, you

00:03:18 know, definitely gives you an edge in the market. And, the brokers that we have on this show with with us today are actually ones who have really embraced early on these products and they’re they’re thriving in today’s challenging market. >> Yeah, if I could jump in there and piggyback off of what he said. So, consumer behavior and spending is at all-time high, right? You know, they’re they’re they’re keep on spending at a rate when when the income isn’t isn’t uh

00:03:42 keeping up. So, for for me here in this market, it’s it’s right right what he said, right? It’s you know, people are consolidating their debt, right? They keep on spending money. Um most of most of everybody’s wealth is trapped in their home, right? As as we all know. And and then when you look at affordability, you know, because we had such a big increase during the last refi boom in in equity uh for for property values, nobody wants to go ahead and buy any new homes. So, what are they doing?

00:04:06 They’re upgrading the home that they have, right? So, for me it’s been a big game changer being able to to to offer these products and especially the way uh DPA has come out with them for me. Um, you know, self-employed borrowers can now tap into the equity of their homes, you know, they’re doing major upgrades. It really has been a game changer for us here. It’s about 15 to 20% of our business and I see a bigger growth in our office with that. >> Anybody else with any thoughts before we

00:04:31 move on to the next question? >> Yeah, and then I’ll just add that, you know, during COVID uh there was a lot of refinances, a lot of cash-out refinances, and uh that is nonexistent today. There are no cash-out refinances. Uh but the tools that loan officers used to identify, you know, if the equity’s increased on their on their past customers, they have tools in place and that’s what they used to use for that. That same marketing strategy can be used on the HELOCs and closed end seconds to replace

00:05:05 that cash-out refi. And the refi that they did during COVID, that was uh 6 years ago. They have equity in their home and you could go back and offer them an equity product to tap into uh that equity to to cover some of the things we’re talking about, consolidate debts, credit card bills. >> Matt, just to to finish off there, too. In Q1, I think uh we discussed this on a different call. In Q1, there was $47 billion in uh in equity extraction in Q1 of 2026. 25 billion of the 47 billion was done

00:05:38 through equity products, second liens. So, more than half of the equity extraction in Q1 was done through equity products. So, if you don’t have equity products or you’re not embracing these products, your borrowers, they still have the financial need as you know Diego mentioned, but guess what? If you don’t offer it, they’re going to go somewhere else. And a lot of times they go to the servicers. And the servicers, when they take that loan and they do the second, then it’s time to do the next

00:06:04 loan to refi cash out. They have about a 90% recapture rate. So, it’s having equity products is a critical piece of your should be a critical piece of your product offering and your retention and recapture strategy. You know, not just this year, but I think elevate rates are going to remain elevated for some time here and the folks who embrace these products are definitely going to be thriving in the market over the next 3 to 5 years. >> Tom makes a great point. You know, I’m in mortgage banking is kind of unique.

00:06:34 There’s no annuity, right? For most mortgage bankers, especially mortgage brokers. So, every month you’re starting over again with the new pipeline. And so, with with all the things that we we said so far, it’s even more and more important for our mortgage brokers to be at the top of the funnel. And so, these digital products help you stay at the top of the funnel for a lot of reasons we’re going to talk about. >> Well, let’s get into the originators and how they’re using these products. And I

00:06:57 know Brian wants to start us off, so we’ll start off with him. Brian, where are the biggest opportunities for brokers who haven’t yet build out a non-QM or equity solutions offering? And what’s holding most of them back? >> The biggest opportunity from my perspective is serving the self-employed borrowers, real estate investors, and homeowners with significant equity. Most brokers aren’t offering these solutions simply because they aren’t familiar with the products. Dee Pay another wholesale

00:07:22 lenders have these products and we’re very confident that mortgage brokers would like to sell these products. >> Paul, Diego, you have any thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think the biggest opportunity from my side it really has been you know, when you think of these products, people traditionally go to the retail banks, right? That’s always been the case, right? They don’t know that we as mortgage brokers can offer these products to them, right? And we offer them with with a great amount of

00:07:46 flexibility that they haven’t had in the past. So, you know, through my conversation with [clears throat] my clients and I tell them, “You know I can do a bank statement loan. You know I can do a DSCR loan, right? I can There’s many ways to extract equity out of the property that you have. So, I think I think education is is at the forefront of what we need to do with everybody. Letting them know that they exist outside of your traditional banking system, right? And that and the rates

00:08:10 are actually very competitive. I I offer rates 8 and 1/2, 8.875, and they’re going to their banks and they’re getting the same rates and sometimes even higher. So, you know, we shouldn’t be shy offering these products. We’re not only competitive, but we’re bringing real solutions to the market. >> Yeah, Diego, you know what’s interesting in your market. I live in South Florida as you know, too, but Miami in general has had more $10 million sales than any other county or any other city in the

00:08:34 United States the last two quarters. And think about all the equity appreciation and the homes on the water. It’s yachting capital of the world, right? I I mean, Diego, having a a a jumbo million-dollar HELOC, having a closed-end million-dollar HELOC. No other I’m not aware of any other investor that has a jumbo million-dollar product. Like how how does that like really open doors for you there? >> Well, you know, I was on you about that for a couple years, right? >> [laughter]

00:09:02 >> I got that one out and and and it really is a game-changer. Like I told like you know, like I preach to everybody in my office and and in my company, you know, most of these seconds that I’m doing literally 5 years ago, it was a first mortgage. I mean, if you look at the loan balance, right? I mean, at least in in my in my neighborhood, right? So, you know, we’re doing four or 500 seconds, you know, even 600 seconds and and it’s crazy, right? And and everybody they don’t you know, you would think

00:09:25 that the consumer is going to balk at a at a 8 and 1/2 interest rate, you know, like I previously mentioned. They don’t. They accept it. They love it. They don’t want to touch their first mortgage. They love their 2.875 interest rate. And and with these loan balances that we’re doing it it really it really has it’s it’s shifted the momentum of of how my loan officers view the mortgage industry too, right? Now they have confidence. Now they’re closing deals, right? It’s keeping food on the table.

00:09:50 So it’s just there’s a big psychology that goes behind this and already for the consumer but also for the people who are offering these products. >> Um well, let’s move on we’ll move on to our next question. We’ll start with Diego this time. Can you walk us through a specific loan scenario you closed with Deephaven that wouldn’t have worked through conventional channels? >> So yeah, it’s actually a good one and so, you know, back to the million-dollar loan that that Tom and I were talking

00:10:15 about. Uh the product came out he gave me a call I think it was on maybe a month ago month 2 months ago and and had an old client um has a house in in Park Avenue, right? $5 million house sitting on a $2 million first mortgage, right? He calls me he’s like, “Diego, I I I need capital, right?” He’s got a great business. Um he builds seawalls and he goes, “I I I need, you know, business is booming. I need access to capital. I went to my bank and my bank said, “Look, I I I we can’t lend this to you, right?”

00:10:41 When you know, most people are self-employed, uh God bless them they’re very savvy with their taxes and you know, they’re able to keep some money on their side with strategic um tax filings. Um and he goes, “Diego, I I I need access to I believe he told me something like 4 or 500,000.” I said, “I have a HELOC product where I can offer a million dollars, right?” Because everybody always when you talk to a consumer, they’re always going to tell you the bare minimum that they need. So

00:11:05 you got to you got to walk them through and tell them, “Look, I’m going to give you extra cash, right?” Because you don’t want to come back to me and pay closing costs all over again, right? So we we were we had the opportunity to turn a four or five hundred thousand-dollar first, I mean sorry, second HELOC, right? Into a million-dollar HELOC, right? He ends up drawing most of the money as we all know he was going to anyways, right? Cuz that’s just the way they they it always works out, right? Um

00:11:28 and we and we did that and we did a bank statement loan, right? I mean great cash flow, he’s in business, right? You know, he has easily 3 to 400,000 dollars deposits, you know, has has has the cash flow to to justify. And he really does have the means to justify the mortgage, right? Um it’s a win-win all around, right? And without without this product, you know, uh I don’t know if we would have been able to get it done anywhere else, right? >> Brian, any thoughts on that? >> So, just this past year, we closed a

00:11:55 loan for a self-employed borrower uh who didn’t qualify with their tax returns. And the tax returns do not reflect the true cash flow. Using bank statements program that Dee Pay Haven has instead of tax returns, we were able to qualify them and get them the cash out that they wanted for their property they own free and clear. Something that conventional financing that could they couldn’t accomplish uh on the on the market. So, uh that’s kind of just one of the solutions that Dee Pay Haven and other

00:12:17 lenders offer on the wholesale mortgage broker space. >> Yeah, I would just like to piggyback just recently uh as late as last week early last week, we rolled out a DSCR HELOC on first liens up to a million dollars and on second liens up to half a million. And look, there’s 19 million investment properties in the United States, close to 50 million units or doors. And savvy investors that are stuck in these lower note rates that, you know, they’re cash flowing, they still want to take cash out to rehab their portfolios.

00:12:46 They still want to take cash out to buy new new investment properties, right? You see folks doing fix and flips in bridge down in South Florida. Like uh they’re they’re they’re tearing down homes and they’re putting new homes up, right? Investors need leverage. And, you know, we we rolled that product out and, you know, similar to uh you know, the scenario um regarding the the borrower needed to get out three loans to get the 500,000. Well, we’re seeing loans five DSCR, you know, HELOCs for a one investor. They’re

00:13:17 taking money out and they’re they’re they’re starting rehabs or buying new investment properties. We’re seeing multiple scenarios where these investors are taking money out so they They go uh they could leverage their their their their capital and go buy more investment properties. So, uh, investment transactions last year were 30% of the overall purchase market. So, imagine having access to that product and going to investors who are professional investors, that’s a big way, a great

00:13:42 door opener to get your door into these investors who transact five to seven times a year, unlike a consumer that might be doing a a transaction once every five years. >> No question about that. Paul, I I don’t know if you heard the question or not, but can you walk us through a specific loan scenario you’ve closed that might not have worked with conventional channels? >> Sure, I’ll give you an excellent example. Uh, a great resource here in Atlanta for us is these private bankers that have

00:14:10 clients that don’t fit the guidelines that the private bank has. So, they refer them out to us as brokers because they know we’re not going to take the depository relationship. And a great example I have was a client that wanted to start a business. He needed about half million cash flow. He had three properties that he owned free and clear, one had a small loan on it. We pulled the cash out of all the three rental properties, and we did a great It was a bank statement loan because he had great

00:14:33 cash flow going through his bank statement. But, he wasn’t showing the income on the tax returns, and it worked out excellent for him because he was able to get the $500,000, start the business. The bank was happy we took care of the client. So, a great resource for us has been the banking relationships, uh, because the bankers want their clients to start the businesses, get the cash flow, but yet they can’t provide the loans for them, but we can do through the DPA products. And that example was a great example for

00:14:58 us. We made a happy client, and I’ve since gotten other referrals through the banker for DSCR loans, for bank statement loans, for P&L loans. So, it’s been it’s been a great source of, uh, products that we can service our clients with as brokers here in the Atlanta area. >> Now that we got you back, let’s go back to that answer to question two about, uh, the biggest opportunity for brokers who haven’t yet built out a non-QM equity solutions offering and what may be holding most of them back.

00:15:25 >> I think it’s just knowledge and comfort level with the programs because once you start closing these programs, the digital HELOCs, the the bank statement loans, the P&L loans, the DSCR products, it’s you become comfortable with them. It builds confidence as you close them and also it it gives the cash flow to the clients and the cash they need to start businesses, to consolidate debt and so it they need to find I mean in our we have a great relationship with our account rep Mark Hammond. I’ve known him for 30

00:15:55 years. And I actually had a meeting with him about five years ago about going into this space and I said Mark it’s probably the best move you’re ever going to make and and he’s done really well with Deephaven and so it’s it’s it’s important to have a good account rep to work with when you’re selecting a non-QM company because the products are out there but the account rep can help you put the deals together and the knowledge. And especially in our firm, we’ve got myself, we’ve got a guy that’s

00:16:20 83 believe it or not that still produces. We’ve got Brian who’s on the call who’s 28. So Mark can work with all of us to help us put the package to get the deals together. Especially Brian, he’s young, he’s got a lot of deals and and Mark helps him put them together and they get them closed. So and that’s that’s the important thing about having an account rep that understands the products and can help you put the deals together. >> No question about that. Let’s move on to the next question and

00:16:45 we’ll stay with you Paul to start this one. How are equity solutions helping you retain or recapture past borrowers who might otherwise shop elsewhere? >> Well, the most important thing from from me being in the business for a while is having that database and the database calls when you determine that there’s equity there and especially if you look at what people are paying now with credit card debt, car loans and other consumer loans, you can consolidate with the Deephaven products. Especially right

00:17:13 there on the phone with the digital HELOC. I mean you can have an answer immediately. It’s a soft credit pull. You send the information to them there, and you’re staying on top of it as opposed to the servicers hammering with free appraisals, free off-road backpacks, whatever it might be to get them to call in. So, having the deep haven digital HELOC has been a game-changer for us because, I mean, even you can ask even Brian. He closed a loan in less than a week for one of his clients that needed some cash out to buy

00:17:40 his property in North Carolina. So, we’re big proponent of the digital HELOC. Some big fan of them. Um it’s it’s been excellent. One guy we’re heavily involved with networking in my BNI group. Um I welcomed him into the group on Monday, and he said, “Well, I’d like to talk to you about a HELOC.” I approved him on Monday, and the next meeting was Wednesday, and he he announced that he was glad to be in the group in the networking group, and he also announced that he had closed on his

00:18:06 digital HELOC and got the cash in like 3-day window. So, it was it’s it’s it’s just a it’s pretty pretty cool what we can offer as brokers having the you know, partnering with the non-QM, especially if you got a a company that can produce the products and get them closed quickly for you. >> Brian, tell us about your perspective on this. >> Absolutely. I think equity solutions give us another reason to reconnect with past clients. And I think in sales, I think it’s important to follow up

00:18:35 without being annoying per se. So, they realize to be like I said, equity solutions give us another reason to reconnect and follow back up with our clients. Instead of telling them to wait for rates to fall, we can help them access equity for renovations, debt consolidation, investments, or other financial goals today. As soon as 1 week, we can get them their cash out of their equity in their home. It keeps us relevant as long as they’re happy. >> Diego? >> Yeah, a lot of what they just said,

00:19:04 right? And and that’s going to be the theme throughout throughout this conversation when it comes to this topic. I’ll give you a story just to piggyback, right? Your database is is is the most important thing that you have as as a professional. And and to for me to be able to reach out to my clients and have a different conversation is is gold, right? Because you’re you’re constantly touching out to me and it’s and it’s constant contact, as we say. So, we did an email campaign about 2 months ago

00:19:30 where we blasted all our clients and we put a digital calculator where they can kind of put in the numbers of what they wanted in cash and they would see the payment on the right hand side. So, a lot of these consumers sometimes they’re afraid or they’re shy to say that they’re in debt and and to call somebody. You know, it’s some for them it’s it’s a very personal subject. So, what we did is when we blasted everybody and we put the digital calculator and we said, “Look, you can access and you

00:19:53 know, you know, just some some numbers of 8 and 1/2, 9%”, right? On on on a HELOC or or a HE loan and they saw and they saw what they could um obtain and they saw the payment, we had a huge response. Huge response, right? I I I think, you know, we’re very big into marketing and I don’t think we’ve had such a big response as we did with that campaign because people, you know, now now now they feel empowered and and they they give you a call like, “Diego, yes, I want to access 50. I want to access

00:20:20 100. I want to access $200,000″, right? “I want to pay off that. I want to do these things.” So, so again, you know, being able to to talk to your consumers about something different is is always an opportunity, especially when you’re bringing real real value to them. >> I mean, just think about it, right? Your past database, right? Um what a great conversation to have if you just could pick up the phone. The emails work great, you know, a lot of these digital HELOCs, like

00:20:45 ours, you can we have a link customize your link, right? You can put it in and it goes out, you know, looks like it’s your website or your HELOC, but what a great conversation you could have by picking up the phone, calling your past client and saying, “Hey, congratulations, Diego, on your rate, the 2.875. You’ll never see that again, right? Congratulations on the equity your house is worth, you know, you picked up an extra $300,000 in equity. Uh just checking in to see are you looking to

00:21:16 renovate your home? I know it was built in the 1970s. Are you looking to uh add some square footage? Are you looking to put on a roof, a pool? Are you looking to consolidate debt? How The kids are going to college. Are you looking to fund your business? Right? That You’re adding value. You could have that conversation with every single customer you’ve ever done a loan for because they all have equity. And not only that, you could do it with people that you’ve never closed a loan for, right?

00:21:44 Because 75% of America’s millionaires are millionaires cuz of their equity in their home. So, if other loan officers are not embracing these products for whatever reason, you can market to their past clients, and you can pick up new relationships, right? And they’ll remember when when you helped them consolidate debt. Uh they’ll they’ll remember when you helped them renovate their home, right? They’ll the The investor is going to remember you when you helped them, you know, cash out

00:22:13 to go start another project or to rehab their, you know, their their existing, you know, uh uh investment portfolio. So, it’s just a great conversation, right? Instead of waiting for the phone to ring, like let’s let’s It’s not that the phone’s not ringing. It’s the person making the phone ring. You got to make the outbound calls. And that’s the best I I think conversation starter that you could have today because the equity deal, you might be able to say, “Hey,

00:22:37 how I’m the investment property looking at, you know, I have this product you can cash out.” They cash out with the equity, and then now they’re going to buy an investment property. Now you got two deals out of one transaction. >> 100% 100%. For me, again, back to the value proposition that you bring to the client on this subject matter changes the dynamic of the conversation completely, right? And that’s where the value is for me. >> Let’s come back to Matt, cuz I want to

00:23:04 talk a little bit about Deephaven specifically. What is it about Deephaven’s non-QM and equity product suite that solves problems brokers can’t solve elsewhere, and what’s a misconception about these products that you find yourself correcting most often? >> Yeah, so I’ll I’ll concentrate on the the HELOC, and then let Tom follow on the on the rest of our second suites of products. But, you know, the the word digital HELOC’s been mentioned already in the call, and it’s

00:23:34 it’s ease of use. And the the automation is great, but it’s great for the easy loan, if there is such a thing. That’s your salaried W-2 person, uh loan amounts under 400,000, we use an AVM, those go quick. But, all loans are not that easy. So, what we’ve done is it’s a hybrid. We use automation when we can on the easy one I just described, but when it comes to uh somebody is self-employed, very complicated bank statement, and you probably already know that as an LO cuz you’ve done a loan for them before, the

00:24:09 automation is not going to work and come back with the the income that you would from uh a regular underwriter looking at it. So, we use the automation to a point where it gets to a complicated borrower, and then we have a human lens on it uh to be able to analyze the bank statements and come up with the true uh income for the borrower for the complicated one. And then, so we’re able to call time out on the automation, insert the human lens, be able to look at the the bank statements. And then,

00:24:40 also on your higher loan amounts, we have a ability to call time out and order a full appraisal. And even that easy one I described, you know, you you run an automated valuation, again automation, they’ve been in their house 15 years, it’s not going to pick up the improvements they’ve done in the past or anything to make the value of their home higher. A full appraisal is needed on some of these for the borrower to get the maximum cuz, you know, they don’t want to, you know, get a new HELOC every

00:25:09 year. The the closing cost was mentioned by Diego. So, by able able to or do a full appraisal, they’re able to get the max. And then the other thing is we’re able to do this on primary, second home, investment. We can do the W-2 salaried, we can do fixed income, we can do the bank statement analysis. And as Tom mentioned, we have a DSCR. So, if you’ve got an investment property, here’s your mortgage, here’s your you know, your your lease, your rent you’re getting from that, we can use

00:25:40 that. And we’re not going to ask about any other debt or do a DTI like we would on a bank statement or salary. We’re just using that DSCR calculation. And then one more step on that, we could use asset utilization. So, somebody’s got, you know, money in their retirement account, we can have that as the primary means of income or supplemental to their bank statement or or or full doc salaried. So, there’s many different ways that they can qualify with us and that automation just is not going to be

00:26:12 able to pull off. So, we add that in and then the biggest thing is this HELOC is 5 years interest only. And I touched earlier on the refinance. So, we have no refinances on the horizon in the next, I’d say, 18 to 24 months. I don’t think rates are going to get below that 5 and 1/2. It’s kind of a magic number for that to to get the people in the past couple years to refi. But, cyclically, the industry every 5 years we have a rate drop for the cash-out refi. So, to say that you could give somebody access

00:26:48 to this capital without touching that first and be able to have an interest only payment based on whatever you have drawn out and then that interest payment’s lesser if you pay it back is really powerful. And then finally, and I’ll let Tom take the floor here, but misconception is we can do first lien position. So somebody is paid free and clear or they paid cash for the property, we can give them a HELOC on everything I just described even if they don’t currently have a first mortgage right

00:27:20 now. >> Matt, you bring up a great point. 40% of Americans own their home free and clear, right? And most originators target people that want to purchase or do a refi cash on an existing loan. They’re not even targeting the 40% of Americans that have their home free and clear. And and and these folks that, you know, that have that want to renovate, right? They paid their home free and clear, more than likely, you know, the The reality is we have an aged housing stock. The average age of a home in the

00:27:45 United States is 40 to 50 years old. So homes need to be renovated and people in. So those are all great points on the first lien HELOC because we’re seeing a lot of that traction as well. Matt, going to the your question on the the you know, just like what makes us different at Deep Haven, the product suite, I would say, you know, I don’t consider us a non-QM investor anymore and you know, that’s that’s the message that we’re we’re championing with our sales team. We’re really a

00:28:13 non-agency investor. And what what do I mean by that? You know, right? We have a full suite of non-QM. We have a full suite of equity products, which includes a a a you know, a closed end second and a HELOC up to a million. We also have alt doc, whether it’s bank statement, P&L, DSCR, asset utilization. We have a first lien HELOC, right? And then we all have also have access to RTL, which is fix and flip and ground up construction and bridge to 15 million. So many of our competitors, you

00:28:48 know, might only have non-QM. They don’t even have equity on the road map, right? You know, building out a digital HELOC in your technology, there’s only a handful of players in the the mortgage space that have that product, right? Maybe less than five on on a hand, right? When you look at IMBs. And we have, I think, if you look at our overall suite, like you would have to get approved of five three or four different investors, one for non-QM, one for digital HELOC, one for alt-doc, closed on seconds, one for DSCR HELOC,

00:29:18 one for RTL potentially. So, you would have to get approved of four three or four different investors to get the same product offering that Deephaven Deephaven has in in in one, you know, one place. So, I personally believe that we have an arsenal of products, right? And it allows, you know, not in in in it allows our our customers to to to work with their clients and provide access to all these options that we have, and their clients don’t have to go anywhere else, right? Whether it’s equity, whether it’s

00:29:50 non-QM, you know, we talked about investor solutions being or investor transactions being 30% of the market. If you have access to a non-QM, DSCR, a five-to-nine, a DSCR you know, HELOC, a DSCR second closed on second, then you can do fix and flip, bridge and ground-up construction to 15 million. Why does that investor That investor is going to go nowhere else. You could help them acquire the land whether with the DSCR second lien, right? Then they could do the fix and flip, then they could do the the the

00:30:23 DSCR take out. So, you get three transactions on one deal, right? So, having a full suite access to an arsenal of products really gives originators an advantage a competitive advantage in the marketplace. It allows the originators to tap into the referral sources that maybe in the past they haven’t really, you know, tapped into accounting CPAs you know real real estate attorneys. You know, there’s all these different avenues, right? The top 5% of realtors in the United States, they control 95%

00:30:55 of the listings, right? The originators that are successful in today’s market, they’re taking this full suite of product and they’re going to those realtors and they say and they’re telling them, “Hey, I have a full suite of products. I can help you do more deals. I can help you transact more. I can help you with builders. I can help you with all your past clients ever bought a house out of equity. They can take the cash out to go buy more, you know, more properties, right? So,

00:31:18 they’re leveraging these products and you know, the all the brokers and you know, on this this this call have talked about, you know, education and having expertise and they’re known for their expertise, knowledge, and focus in this space and people come to them because they’re pros in this market and these products. And so, that’s what I would, you know, the the takeaway for the from this call till end would say originators embrace these products, become product knowledge experts, be known in your

00:31:46 market as a non-agency you know, go to originator and leverage these products to the tap into different referral sources and take a tactical approach, have a strategy, and you’ll thrive in in today’s market. >> As we get ready to wrap up today, a question Tom that I always like to discuss with you every time we get a chance to chat is where do you see this segment of the market heading over the next 12 months? >> Yeah, I think the market’s going to the non-agency market’s going to

00:32:18 continue. We’re going to see 30, 35% you know, year-over-year growth. I think the biggest area of growth is going to be loan officer adoption, right? Really, you know, embracing these products. I think equity is a generational opportunity. The backdrop couldn’t be perfect for that those type of products. And I you know, you see the agencies, they’re they’re actually, you know, they’ve pulled back on certain, you know, you know, investor or or second home LLPA’s. You they’re they’re they’re

00:32:45 they’re they have some changes on the condos coming in August and there’s going to be a change in, you know, I think in January around the budget, you know, you know, for condos. And how they treat those budgets and you know, certain requirements. So, and I what I’m hearing, you know, based on you know, conversations are being had with the agencies from some, you know, industry executives and key leaders in our industry, like they’re not going to budge on that stuff. So, guess what? Not

00:33:13 Don agency is going to fill that gap and you know, Diego, you got a ton of condos in South Florida, right? Like that’s that’s going to be big for Diego to to help all his his his loan officers and you know, you know, and all their their their clients that that [clears throat] purchase these these condos with the with the you know, the the the non-warrantable products that we have at Deep Haven. So, we’re always trying to innovate, trying to serve, trying to you know, help our brokers. We take a lot of

00:33:42 feedback from them and you know, leverage that feedback to to you know, innovate new products. >> No, it’s funny. I, you know, I tell all my loan officers, if you have a condo and you’re not going straight to Deep Haven, you’re just wasting time. I literally tell everybody that. I You guys have one of the best condo products in the market. I’m sure it performs well because you guys, you know, haven’t dinged it up in any in any way. Um, it truly is what Deep Haven does to give me as a

00:34:09 loan officer and and and my group is is second to none. I’m a big fan, always been big fans and and thank you for for for everything you guys do. 100%. >> That’s just about going to wrap things up for this edition of MPA TV. Thanks again to all of our guests and thank you for watching this edition of MPA TV. For my guests, I’m Matt Saxon saying so long and we’ll see you again next time. >> [music]